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CUV, CLINUVEL PHARMACEUTICALS LIMITED
NewToCli
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 08:52 AM
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In Reply To: sharelooker's post @ Oct 31 2019, 08:45 AM

Outch!!! That is a bit embarrassing

 
macgyver
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 08:52 AM
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In Reply To: sharelooker's post @ Oct 31 2019, 08:45 AM

Its slightly less than the same quarter last year. How is the cashflow, I'm reading $3 mill less?

Seasonal demand aside, I would've expected cash receipts as more patients come online. Perhaps there are more patients but seasonal demand dictates all?

 
sharelooker
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 08:45 AM
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https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20191031/pdf/...3gxz39cm241.pdf

9,782 mln revenues
5,385 mln profit
58,336 mln cash on bank


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andymen
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 08:43 AM
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4C result in about 5 minutes time. I hoping for > $15 mil. Soon find out!


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macgyver
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 06:58 AM
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In Reply To: FarmaZutical's post @ Oct 31 2019, 03:45 AM

Not sure if PBAC would refuse reimbursement (of course it’s entirely possible). $15 million per annum is not a big deal in the scheme of things. Let’s hope with FDA/EMA approval and PASS data that other jurisdictions will show less resistance to reimbursement.

 
johnnytech
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 05:42 AM
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In Reply To: LevelHeaded2000's post @ Oct 31 2019, 04:08 AM

LevelHeaded, nicely written. You said we could get an experienced CEO at half. I bet we could start the recruiting at 10% according to this article. PW's performance rights put him far above No. 1 on the list of 2018 top 25 paid CEOs. None of the top 25 are pharmaceuticals.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/1...-2018/38756663/

No. 25... $30 Million USD.
No. 1... $103 Million USD.
PW's performance rights... $143 Million USD.

(Total amount divided by 4 years. It's conservative as well since it excluded his $2M salary, and the extremely high probability of exercising the Sell Out clause in year 2 of the 4 year deadline to this package).

The question I ask myself, am I ready to move on past PW? The last 10 years wasn't just a bet on the molecule, but on the man himself. So, at what point does it stop becoming about the man, and turn back to the intellectual property of the company? We have reached that point in my opinion.

However, I'm not totally moved to carry a pitchfork and go after PW about the total shares on this package without knowing the CEO candidate market landscape. But, I absolutely want that Sell Out clause revised to mandate a successful transaction, and the elimination of the recession clause. Without those two changes, my vote is no. Besides, if PW drops from no. 1 to lowly no. 24 on a top 25 list, is he going to leave? Yeah right.

The molecule carries Clinuvel forward under any management. Since Willem Blijdorp is such a massive share holder himself, if he loses PW he'd be forced to do some soul searching and revisit strategy... all good activities. Yes, please go after a top 10 experienced Pharma CEO that would easily take $15 Million per year. Or do the right thing Blijdorp and revise the conditions. The deadline to revise the Proxy Form is November 6th, 2019.


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LevelHeaded2000
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 04:08 AM
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In Reply To: FarmaZutical's post @ Oct 31 2019, 03:45 AM

Blijorps letter I found very bizarre too. I think it is a little disingenuous. The primary issue most people have is in the PC1 pathway 2 poison pill (winning on recession clause). I think most people would be satisfied if this was removed or if PC1 was entirely based on some kind of annualized rate of return (7.5B would be a 70% annualized return) regardless of recession.

Instead of alleviating concerns, Blijorps letter re-focuses shareholders on the 7.5B pathway 1 and tries to ignore the pathway 2 issue entirely. I feel like he is being a bit of a magician trying to direct our attention to the left hand while the right hand is doing something else. He must realize that the 7.5B target is a bit of an illusion when there is a poison pill in the target that has 50% odds of triggering.

Blijorp has a lot of money invested in Clinuvel and unlike PW it is real money not shares given to him. He is obviously an intelligent business savvy guy or else he would not have had the life success he has had. It makes me wonder what the internal politicking is like at Clinuvel that would make him advocate for the performance plan. He must see that PC1 pathway 2 is nothing more than a PW handout for all practical purposes due to the poison pill. Has PW told him he will refuse to work without a the giveaway? Does he believe the company cannot survive without PW?

One thing is for sure the letter would not have been motivated unless some big shareholders expressed concerns. I think at this point Blijorp is not certain the measure will pass in the AGM. Truth is, at half the pay Clinuvel could attract some other very top-talent pharma exec. It would hurt the rollout and expansion short-term, but it would give the company new blood. Even at half the performance package the new CEO would be well-aligned with shareholders.


I personally think PW should remove PC1 pathway 2 (recession clause) as good faith.


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FarmaZutical
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 03:45 AM
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This is a post by CUV101 of Hotcopper. It reflects my sentiment exactly.

“ Lets look at those other goals and events along the way.

PC1 - The $7.5B target is for appearance only, 100% of performance rights can be granted without getting anywhere near this target, if there is a recession in US or Aus, then Clinuvel share price outperforming a biotech index (of the boards choosing) by 9% will replace this $7.5B target - quite different. Market cap may even go down!

PC2 - Having cash in the bank. OK, its good and sensible but it hardly encourages R&D and/or spending on growing the company.

PC3 - Buying another business that generates revenue. NOT profit. CSL did it years ago and it worked well for them so it must be a good idea. I’d be happy with this if it was based on a more objective assessment of value to Clinuvel.

PC4 - Performance rights for US sales is not performance. It has already been approved, it has already been reimbursed by US insurance companies for US patients getting treated in Europe for the same price! Also more rights for 10% growth in second year! Pretty easy to achieve when you control the speed of year 1 rollout!

PC5 - OTC launch and $250,000 in sales. This launch was promised to us previously with a launch date given, this was delayed due to supplier issues (was this a lie?). Now they want performance rights to reward their missed promise.

PC5 - First topical melanotropic formulation tested on animals. “Formulation work has commenced and Clinuvel expects the first formulations to be available for clinical testing in Q1 2011.” this quote is from 2010! It was again promised in the 2020 vision at the 2018 AGM, with a study to be completed mid 2019! Once again Clinuvel are being rewarded for non performance over a long period of time.

PC5 - Paediatric formulation, probably fair enough

PC6 - Vitiligo (or any other indication) development. The previous US vitiligo trial reported 2012. 7 years of preparation for this one. Performing trials and meeting with FDA is sort of what the company is supposed to be about.

PC7 - TGA filing - 212,500 rights for approval in Australia. For an Australian company to get approval with TGA AFTER EMA and FDA this is not an extraordinary effort, in fact it is a slam dunk. It will also bring little, if any revenue to Clinuvel as PBAC will be unlikely to recommend reimbursement.

PC8- 116,250 at the Boards’ pleasure- exceptional and unexpected performance.

Look, I think the granting of these performance rights to Wolgen and senior management with such soft conditions is weak. Wolgen has already been granted around 7% of the company, worth over $100M at todays share price. He has consistently been the highest paid Biotech CEO in cash terms on top of this. However, shareholders are all in the money and that is what he is ultimately there for so good on him. If all of these soft performance rights were substituted with a single hurdle of market cap of $4-5Billion in three years then good luck to them all (I think that this will happen). But there is no way they should be approved in their current form. I’d probably be happy if they added a performance condition for engaging with retail shareholders, rather than just ignoring us. Blijdorp’s letter today was bizarre.”


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seeva222
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 03:23 AM
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In Reply To: CobiV13's post @ Oct 31 2019, 02:38 AM

The index is a horrible idea. CUV should outperform the index anyone as CEO.

We can certainly create revenue targets (the govt will still pay) and milestones even in a recession.


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CobiV13
post Posted: Oct 31 2019, 02:38 AM
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The Index tracking is a bad idea because the share price could see movements which correlate with irrational market sentiment and availability of cheap money rather than actual value creation.

Wolgen and the team should be fairly, even VERY handsomely rewarded for creating sales revenue and attributable cash AND for transparent reporting/communication. This company has the potential to be a royalty like cash stream until Kingdom comes. If proven to do so and communicated clearly Mr Market will soon pick up on this and the share price will rocket so that those who want can sell and retire and those who don't can keep the shares and collect annuities $$$.

So, I'd like to see annual sales targets set and forward looking revenue and profit guidance also set as as metrics to be met

And performance rights should go out the window because they will only exercise them when it is extremely beneficial and causes more dilution than what was meant for, effectively insider trading. Pay the guys in cash so we can see the clear cost on the income statement every year and the effect on distributable cash. And of course they should be given a window of say 6 months to use this cash to buy the shares and may not sell them for at least say 3 years.

If they truly think that this company could become a blockbuster over the next decade then they would accept that.

What else could be added that drives real value creation?

To be clear|:
I want to see revenue created
I want to see cash distributed
Or where cash is retained I want to see it invested to create more sales and distributable cash
I want transparency and clear guidance on forecasts
I want ALL the information available so that I can make my own calculations of what the share price should be
I want the team to be very well rewarded for this. Not the ridiculousness that has been proposed


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