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Greek referendum, Will the Greek's ratify the Greek bailout?
chiller
post Posted: Oct 17 2012, 07:20 AM
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Are we getting close to the beginning of the end?

QUOTE
Greece is slogging through a sixth year of recession and waves of salary and pension cuts imposed since 2010 have failed to restore public finances to health.

There have been protests against a new wave of austerity measures coming to parliament later in the year, which Samaras' administration promises to be the last on the road to growth.

A general strike has been called by unions on Thursday.

With unemployment now at over 25 per cent and social malaise spreading, there has also been a spike in attacks on migrants that is blamed on Golden Dawn, a neo-Nazi group that recently managed to get representatives elected to parliament.

The latest austerity sacrifices are required by Greece's international creditors - the EU, IMF and the European Central Bank - to unlock loans worth 31.5 billion euros ($41 billion), part of an ongoing bailout plan.

Greece's failure to keep up with promised reforms earlier this year gave rise to speculation that the country would be forced out of the eurozone.

"Greece will soon receive the next loan instalment," Samaras said.

"It is critical because it will mean that Greece can stand upright and the danger of (the country) leaving the euro will conclusively move away," he said.


http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-bu...1016-27nls.html

Cheers Charles



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Temporary insanity only
 
flower
post Posted: Feb 9 2012, 11:04 AM
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BERLIN, Germany — With Greece on the cusp of a deal to secure a bailout, the European Central Bank is reportedly prepared to play a crucial role in reducing the country's crippling debt burden. The ECB's move is a significant reversal, given that officials had rejected any such assistance in the past.

The news comes as the coalition parties in Athens finally prepare to discuss the draft plan for tough reforms, following days of delays.

The three parties were handed the 50-page text on Wednesday morning after Prime Minister Lucas Papademos and officials from the troika of international lenders, the ECB, the European Union and the International Monetary Fund, agreed on the final details late Tuesday night.

Papademos, the technocrat ushered in to help rescue Greece's economy, needs to get the green light from the party leaders for the reform package before he can access the new 130 billion euro ($172 billion) rescue package to avoid bankruptcy

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/re...ease-greek-debt
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The solution to the Greek debt situation is obviously pivotal to world stockmarkets well being, IF this proposed deal goes through with the ECB picking up the tab, the next question to ask is:

Will it be put to the Greek population as a Referendum, or will it simply be rammed through.?

Next question: If rammed through what will be the consequences for currencies, especially the USD?

Yet another action packed weekend in store possibly--but watch out for the consequences which may be both good and bad--IMHO




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Combining Fundamental comments with Fundamental charts.
 
chiller
post Posted: Nov 9 2011, 02:39 PM
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In Reply To: balance's post @ Nov 9 2011, 09:46 AM

Thanks balance,

The current situation is for the Greece debt crisis to drag out for years, with continued austerity measures that will rankle with the Greek populus.

Whereas going back to the drachma means they can value it at a level necessary to get investment happening again. And yes the austerity measures will continue (and no imports for a long time) but at least the people will know that the pain they are enduring today will lead to a better future for their kids. You can't say that under the EU model. Oh well if France and Germany wish to keep throwing Euros at them then let this charade continue but someone will wake up one day and realise that a shrinking economy can not service a debt level at 120% of GDP.

Cheers Charles



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Temporary insanity only

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balance
post Posted: Nov 9 2011, 09:46 AM
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In Reply To: chiller's post @ Nov 7 2011, 11:44 PM

Its not easy to kick anyone out afaik. I dont think the legalities allow one to leave the currency and stay in the union.Or just to leave both.
What if they went back to the drachma? Imagine the run on the greek banks due to the massive devaluation that would occur. They'd be broke overnight and create another mess.

The impoverishment of the populace would be astonishing. Not sure how that would go down. It would of course have the benefit of allowing the market to set its value and make greece a very very cheap place to do stuff. Enough to dig them out of the poo?



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Day Trader: Lowest form of life in the known universe.
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Share prices are only ever manipulated down.
Paper losses are not really losses.
Chat site posters always know better & know more than anyone about anything.
I'm 29.
The cheque is in the mail.
 
chiller
post Posted: Nov 9 2011, 07:50 AM
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In Reply To: chiller's post @ Nov 7 2011, 11:44 PM

Papandreou gone and now Burlesqueconi (apologies triage - to good not to use)

http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-bu...1109-1n60f.html

Cheers Charles



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Temporary insanity only
 
chiller
post Posted: Nov 7 2011, 11:44 PM
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In Reply To: triage's post @ Nov 6 2011, 08:13 AM

Thanks triage,

Given all that, why doesn't the EU kick Greece out. Greece is hamstrung whilst it keeps the Euro as its currency, the EU is hamstrung with Greece a member. The simplest and easiest solution would be to let Greece go its own way. Its a shame the referendum didn't get up, it may have provided the best outcome.

Cheers Charles



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Temporary insanity only
 


balance
post Posted: Nov 6 2011, 08:58 AM
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In Reply To: triage's post @ Nov 6 2011, 08:13 AM

"Burlesqueconi"... how clever.
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The Greek PM is wily guy. Cunning as a .... house rat as I said before.
Throw a spanner in the works for the sake of galvanising greek domestic politics. Neuters the military. at least gives the impression of an impending coup de tat to outsiders. maybe playing for more money better conditions? Wins a confidence vote (who else would want the job? ) and stays in power with an impending unity govt. Nice work.
After all greece is rooted no matter what. It is a bit like the old bank truism, if you owe the bank a few grand and cannot pay you have a problem if you owe the bank squillions and cant pay, the bank has big problem.



--------------------
Day Trader: Lowest form of life in the known universe.
Shorter: Can limbo under a day trader.
Investor: Salt of the Earth.Sits to the right of God (Warren Buffet)
Share prices are only ever manipulated down.
Paper losses are not really losses.
Chat site posters always know better & know more than anyone about anything.
I'm 29.
The cheque is in the mail.
 
triage
post Posted: Nov 6 2011, 08:13 AM
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The combination of stories on today's online International Herald Tribune - which is effectively that of the New York Times - evoked a bitter smirk from me. It seems that "they" will never accept reality.

One article has the headline "The denials that trapped Greece" and says in part:

QUOTE
THE warning was clear: Greece was spiraling out of control. But the alarm, sounded in mid-2009, in a draft report from the International Monetary Fund, never reached the outside world.

Greek officials saw the draft and complained to the I.M.F. So the final report, while critical, played down the risks that Athens might one day default, with disastrous consequences for all of Europe.

What is so remarkable about this episode is that it wasn't so remarkable at all. ...

...Almost all of the endeavors to defuse this crisis have denied the overarching conclusion of that I.M.F. draft: that Greece could no longer pay its bills and needed to drastically cut its debt.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/business...ref=global-home

Goodo I thought, this journo gets it: how pathetic is it that authorities and most commentators pretended for so long that Greece had even a modicum of hope when in fact it has been a done deal for years that Greece is a dead duck.

But then an adjacent article starts off with this:

QUOTE
ATHENS — Hours after winning a crucial confidence vote that makes it more likely that Greece will receive the foreign aid it needs to prevent default on its debts, the country's leaders appeared Saturday to be enmeshed once again in the type of domestic political wrangling that threw Europe and its markets into turmoil last week. Prime Minister George Papandreou took the first steps Saturday to try to form a unity government with the opposition, which he said was necessary to steer the country out of danger. But by Saturday evening, the two sides seemed locked in position, with the prime minister making no immediate move to leave power — a key demand of the opposition — and the opposition leader reiterating his call for early elections and branding Mr. Papandreou "dangerous for the country."

While such stands may be nothing more than clever negotiating strategies to win concessions, any sign that Greece could be headed for a poisonous stalemate is sure to rattle European leaders — and creditors — desperate for stability.

The continued political upheaval comes at a time when Europe can least afford it.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/world/eu...ref=global-home

They simply do not get it, it seems to me. The bond market has been telling the world for some time now that Greece, with 2 year bonds yields at over 150%, is kaput, and the root cause of the current angst is not that nothing has been resolved yet but rather that this soap opera is allowed to continued at all. By allowing them to drag it out only prolongs the pain. We are at the stage, way past the stage in fact, where the farce which is the Greek economy should be put out of the misery that its current form is causing. The Germans have a saying which apparently translates as "better a horrible end then horror without end". Very apt imo.

What is worse is that by allowing the focus to remain on the unsaveable Greek economy the leadership is losing the opportunity to "save" economies that are a chance of being saved. I am not sure about Ireland and Portugal and Spain - maybe they are already circling the plug-hole too - but Italy, with a 10 year bond yield at above 6% and being led by an embarrassment like Burlesqueconi, is clearly in need of radical treatment right now. But the danger is that this reality will only be recognised after the fact, just as with Greece. Maybe with this next iteration it will take some New York Times journo less than 2 years to work out how unremarkable such a conclusion is.



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"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." John Maynard Keynes

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rudiger Dornbush

Mozart fixes everything and Messi is a dog

Said 'Thanks' for this post: balance  chiller  
 
wolverine
post Posted: Nov 5 2011, 10:41 PM
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In Reply To: mrbear's post @ Nov 5 2011, 06:38 PM

I know I was being serious about BHP.



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mrbear
post Posted: Nov 5 2011, 06:38 PM
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In Reply To: hoaky's post @ Nov 4 2011, 11:56 PM

Will you stop being shallow and inane hoaky this is a serious discussion board "i think" biggrin.gif ,cheers mrbear
PS ,more fun that greek politics for sure though and my kids don't have to show me funny faces,the grandaughter does, bad sign of ageing there


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