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HYDROGEN POWER
blacksheep
post Posted: Dec 5 2019, 06:35 PM
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The National Hydrogen Roadmap provides a blueprint for the development of a hydrogen industry in Australia.

Download the National Hydrogen Roadmap
Executive summary [pdf · 1mb]
Main report [pdf · 5mb]
Main report - accessible text version [html · 1mb]
https://www.csiro.au/en/Do-business/Futures...ydrogen-Roadmap



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The herd instinct among forecasters makes sheep look like independent thinkers. Edgar Fiedler

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. George Washington
 
blacksheep
post Posted: Nov 22 2019, 06:51 PM
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Hydrogen the focus of today's energy COAG, but experts urge caution
By Sabra Lane on AM
QUOTE
Hydrogen's being touted as the fuel of the future - a virtually endless supply of convenient, high-energy, zero emissions energy.

And today at a meeting of energy ministers the chief scientist Alan Finkel will lay out his plan for Australia to become an early player in the emerging hydrogen fuel industry, with the

But, argue others, the clean energy promise of hydrogen a decade or so away because producing it now can only be done economically by burning large amounts of carbon intensive fossil fuels.

Podcast - https://abcmedia.akamaized.net/radio/local_...ag-hydrogen.mp3

In simple terms, there are currently three ways to make hydrogen. Brown hydrogen is is produced when the element is stripped out of fossil fuels such as coal, while blue hydrogen is produced from gas. Green hydrogen is produced from running an electric current through water using an electrolyser powered by renewable energy such as solar.

Angus Taylor, surprise, surprise, suggested - "In an interview before the meeting, Taylor suggested hydrogen production should be “technology neutral”, indicating it could be down using brown coal. and "efforts by ACT energy minister Shane Rattenbury to secure a commitment from COAG energy council to produce hydrogen using only renewable energy sources, were blocked by Taylor."

QUOTE
Production
Hydrogen can be produced from diverse, domestic resources including fossil fuels, biomass, and water electrolysis with electricity. The environmental impact and energy efficiency of hydrogen depends on how it is produced. Several projects are under way to decrease costs associated with hydrogen production.

There are a number of ways to produce hydrogen:

Natural Gas Reforming/Gasification: Synthesis gas, a mixture of hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and a small amount of carbon dioxide, is created by reacting natural gas with high-temperature steam. The carbon monoxide is reacted with water to produce additional hydrogen. This method is the cheapest, most efficient, and most common. Natural gas reforming using steam accounts for the majority of hydrogen produced in the United States annually.

A synthesis gas can also be created by reacting coal or biomass with high-temperature steam and oxygen in a pressurized gasifier, which is converted into gaseous components—a process called gasification. The resulting synthesis gas contains hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which is reacted with steam to separate the hydrogen.

Electrolysis: An electric current splits water into hydrogen and oxygen. If the electricity is produced by renewable sources, such as solar or wind, the resulting hydrogen will be considered renewable as well, and has numerous emissions benefits. Power-to-hydrogen projects are taking off, where excess renewable electricity, when it's available, is used to make hydrogen through electrolysis.

Renewable Liquid Reforming: Renewable liquid fuels, such as ethanol, are reacted with high-temperature steam to produce hydrogen near the point of end use.

Fermentation: Biomass is converted into sugar-rich feedstocks that can be fermented to produce hydrogen.

A number of hydrogen production methods are in development:

High-Temperature Water Splitting: High temperatures generated by solar concentrators or nuclear reactors drive chemical reactions that split water to produce hydrogen.

Photobiological Water Splitting: Microbes, such as green algae, consume water in the presence of sunlight, producing hydrogen as a byproduct.

Photoelectrochemical Water Splitting: Photoelectrochemical systems produce hydrogen from water using special semiconductors and energy from sunlight.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_production.html



--------------------
The herd instinct among forecasters makes sheep look like independent thinkers. Edgar Fiedler

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. George Washington
 
nipper
post Posted: Nov 18 2019, 09:59 AM
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It’s expected that hydrogen will replace diesel in long-haul transport — trucks, trains and ships — while lithium-ion batteries replace unleaded petrol in cars.

Hydrogen is not burned like petrol and diesel: it is used as a feedstock for fuel cells that produce electricity that then drive electric motors, in place of batteries. As with batteries, the electricity comes from a chemical reaction, in this case from the hydrogen combining with oxygen to produce water. You can apparently drink the exhaust.

The work of Finkel, and the COAG Hydrogen Working Group he’s leading, is only one of a number of state and federal projects going on.

Queensland, Western Australia and South Australia have all announced and funded hydrogen strategies and the Australian ­Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) is funding at least nine hydrogen projects, including a left-field one in Perth by ASX-listed Hazer Group to produce hydrogen plus graphite from waste methane.

Meanwhile, Fortescue Metals Group is working with the CSIRO on a process for shipping hydrogen as ammonia: instead of liquefying the hydrogen directly like LNG, the idea is that nitrogen is added to it to create NH3 (ammonia), which requires much less energy to liquefy for transportation. The nitrogen is then removed at the other end. The Fortescue plan is to build a hydrogen factory in the Kimberley using the abundant water that’s there plus the even more abundant sunshine for electricity, and use it to replace the diesel fuel in its mines as well as export it as ammonia, as a new product line on top of iron ore.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/h...a34fe2a6d47564d

.... we'll wait and see (and wait, some more)



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"Every long-term security is nothing more than a claim on some expected future stream of cash that will be delivered into the hands of investors over time. For a given stream of expected future cash payments, the higher the price investors pay today for that stream of cash, the lower the long-term return they will achieve on their investment over time." - Dr John Hussman

"If I had even the slightest grasp upon my own faculties, I would not make essays, I would make decisions." ― Michel de Montaigne
 
nipper
post Posted: Nov 15 2019, 09:12 AM
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Hydrogen .....the smallest molecule.



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"Every long-term security is nothing more than a claim on some expected future stream of cash that will be delivered into the hands of investors over time. For a given stream of expected future cash payments, the higher the price investors pay today for that stream of cash, the lower the long-term return they will achieve on their investment over time." - Dr John Hussman

"If I had even the slightest grasp upon my own faculties, I would not make essays, I would make decisions." ― Michel de Montaigne
 
mullokintyre
post Posted: Nov 15 2019, 08:27 AM
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In Reply To: henrietta's post @ Nov 15 2019, 07:55 AM

J, you can read all about it HERE at Skeptics

It seems that the problem was not the burning of Hydrogen, but rather the fact that Horvath claimed to be using fusion to create the hydrogen from water. Thats was the real downfall.

Mick



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henrietta
post Posted: Nov 15 2019, 07:55 AM
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In Reply To: mullokintyre's post @ Nov 15 2019, 07:24 AM

Does anyone else remember, back in the good old days of Jo Bjelke-Petersen, how Jo once was championing a Queensland inventor who was proposing a "hydrogen" powered car ?

The idea was derided as totally wacky by all and sundry. The idea of a car running on hydrogen, obtained from just water, was definitely ahead of its time. One of Jo's better ideas, in a sea of appalling decisions.

Cheers
J

 

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mullokintyre
post Posted: Nov 15 2019, 07:24 AM
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In Reply To: blacksheep's post @ Nov 14 2019, 08:26 PM

Wasn't it the Germans who developed the Hindenburg??
Just saying.
Mick



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sent from my Olivetti Typewriter.
 
blacksheep
post Posted: Nov 14 2019, 08:26 PM
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Another nail in coal’s coffin? German steel furnace runs on renewable hydrogen in world first
Michael Mazengarb13 November 2019

QUOTE
German manufacturing giant Thyssenkrupp has completed a successful, first-of-its-kind demonstration of running a steel furnace completely on hydrogen, a development that is likely to further dent the future prospects for the global coal industry.

The company successfully demonstrated the ability for hydrogen to be used to fuel a steel blast furnace, and Thyssenkrupp sees the achievement as the first step towards transitioning the manufacturing industry towards zero-emissions steel production.

The use of hydrogen to fuel the blast furnaces in steel production also provides a pathway for using renewable hydrogen, potentially eliminating the dependence of the industry on coal.


QUOTE
Following the successful trial, Thyssenkrupp plans to scale up the injection to all 28 tuyeres within the furnace and aims to eventually run at least three furnaces completely on hydrogen by 2023.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/another-nail-in...ld-first-55906/



--------------------
The herd instinct among forecasters makes sheep look like independent thinkers. Edgar Fiedler

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. George Washington
 
nipper
post Posted: Oct 11 2019, 04:47 PM
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In Reply To: mullokintyre's post @ Oct 11 2019, 03:57 PM

Hence the plea for collaboration!



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"Every long-term security is nothing more than a claim on some expected future stream of cash that will be delivered into the hands of investors over time. For a given stream of expected future cash payments, the higher the price investors pay today for that stream of cash, the lower the long-term return they will achieve on their investment over time." - Dr John Hussman

"If I had even the slightest grasp upon my own faculties, I would not make essays, I would make decisions." ― Michel de Montaigne
 
mullokintyre
post Posted: Oct 11 2019, 03:57 PM
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In Reply To: nipper's post @ Oct 11 2019, 03:31 PM

As usual, they only tell part of the story.
The so called blue hydrogen from Natural gas is rather energy intensive in that it treats the Natural gas with steam to produce the hydrogen.
Unfortunately it also produces carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.
So instead of burning the natural gas to produce energy and carbon dioxide, we stick an intermediate step in to produce carbon dioxide.
And of course it is using fossil fuel as its feedstock, a finite non renewable source.
At least in the electrolysis version of the green hydrogen, the raw materials, water is quite abundant, is very renewable, and the byproduct, oxygen is a little more useful and less of a greenhouse gas than CO2.
And of course when hydrogen is "burnt" in the presence of oxygen to release the energy, the byproduct is water, which of course becomes the feedstock again. Simples.
I thought the whole point of these new renewable fuels was to stop using fossil fuels and reduce the CO2.
Mind you, Water vapour itself is a greenhouse gas, but the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere is controlled by its temperature, rather then the other way around.
Still , tit is generally acknowledged that about 60% of global warming is due to water vapour.

Mick





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