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Hi all


I thought I would stop clogging up the other specific commidity boards with my learning of trading commodities, so I opened up this topic to see how we go.


I've been trading gasoline and natural gas today to some minor success. I'm quite bullish on both and saw the early selloff as a bit of a knee jerk reaction given very favourable fundamental trends. I also think many refineries will be offline for a while due to power outages despite not suffering any damage.


Once people start heading home after the hurrican expect demand for gasoline to soar IMO.


Crude prices are very resiliant at the moment having erased earlier losses. Heating Oil is the surprise of the day but I sense a that nag gas could recover earlier losses following heating oil's lead.


Currently long natural gas and gasoline.

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What a day!


Closed out of gasoline way too earlier but took a nice profit.


Have been very long natural gas over the last couple of days and it appears to be paying off. Pipelines are damaged everywhere with Force Majeure being declared. There is much uncertainty about the damage which is feeding the price.


More natural gas is offline now than yesterday. I figure that is a result of more damage being found and having to be shut down for repairs. More natural gas production has been lost in the last five weeks than from five months after hurrican Ivan. I see very little downside risk over the next few months with winter coming on.


Am now looking at the storage report tomorrow to see if builds have occured.


At some point I'm looking to go short gasoline, but just need to pick my time. The time is not yet as 15% of refining capacitiy is expected to be offline for weeks but I believe the easy money has been made there so not worth going long.

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In reply to: kosmo on Wednesday 28/09/05 10:33pm

Hi Kosmo


I'm using spreadbets via IG Index (www.igindex.co.uk but you would use www.igindex.com.au).


I've also forked out US$210 a month for Nymex and Comex data via www.nymex.com to have live prices and live Dow Jones energy news. Sounds a lot, but it pays for itself VERY quickly if successful.


I find that having live data matched up with the spreadbetting platform provides the best way to time spreadbets. The beauty of a spreadbet is that it is tax free! Also, you can bet on a huge range of shares, commodities, indicies, FX, treasury bonds and even sport. The downside is that you can lose a lot very quickly!


Let me know if you want more info and I can give you it!


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In reply to: theflasherman on Thursday 29/09/05 09:12am

Thanks Flash,


I'll check out what you've provided. My problem at the moment (besides funds) is time. But I can't help myself, I need to know what's cooking. http://www.sharescene.com/html/emoticons/tongue.gif


Interesting tho, on the ABC news finacial report despite Australia's reasonably strong market we're not one of the top performing this year. I can't remember the figures (they wouldn't be hard to find). But I guess familiarity is often the advantage.



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QUOTE (kosmo @ Wednesday 28/09/05 11:33pm)

Hi Kosmo


There is something to be said for sticking to one's knitting http://www.sharescene.com/html/emoticons/king.gif


I don't know if I'll continue to trade commodities directly much but I saw an opportunity on this occasion and went for it. I'll maintain a trailing stop loss to see how far my position runs. US$20.00 per mmcf (see below) would be VERY nice!


DJ WSJ(9/29) Commodities Report: Natural-Gas Futures Rise Wed

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚   (From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL)
ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚   By Maya Jackson Randall and Spencer Jakab
ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚   Dow Jones Newswires

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  In an early taste of what consumers can expect by way of higher heating bills
this winter, natural-gas futures skyrocketed 10% to almost $14 per million
British thermal units, its highest closing on record.

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  The move added weight to a warning from the Natural Gas Supply Association
alerting consumers that colder weather in the East combined with
hurricane-related supply disruptions along the Gulf Coast will likely mean
higher natural-gas prices across the country this winter. "Consumers should be
prepared to pay higher bills this winter," said association Chairman Joseph

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  Natural-gas futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange for delivery in
October soared $1.251 to $13.907 per million BTUs. The expiration of the
October contract at the same time that the delivery point for Nymex futures,
Louisiana's Henry Hub, has been closed for a week, sowed uncertainty in the
market and added to yesterday's volatility.

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  Traders are openly talking about price spikes as high as $20, according to
Guy Gleichmann, president of futures broker United Strategic Investors Group.

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  The natural-gas association, which represents producers and marketers, said
in its annual winter outlook that Hurricane Katrina-related production losses,
an anticipated increase in heating demand, and the potential effect from
Hurricane Rita "will result in upward pressure on the natural-gas market,
compared with the average for last heating season." The weather "is the largest
single factor affecting natural-gas demand and customer bills," the association
said. The group highlighted supply constraints in the market and urged
customers to conserve this winter by turning thermostats down a couple of
degrees and weatherizing their homes.

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  Supply remains a significant concern in the wake of two hurricanes that have
"shut in," or closed down, production that can't be readily replaced with
imports. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita have delayed or halted production of about
180 billion cubic feet, or 4.9% of the yearly gas production in the Gulf of

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  In other commodity markets:

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  GOLD: Prices on the Comex division of the Nymex rallied sharply, with
options-related activity and strength in energy futures lifting trade.
Central-bank selling of gold reserves was less than anticipated, lending
support. September gold rose $7.10 an ounce to $469.70, while most-active
December gained $6.90 to $473.10.

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  COFFEE: Futures on the New York Board of Trade rose 5% on technical-chart and
commodity-fund buying. September coffee rose 4.75 cent a pound to 93.40 cents.
Most-active December also rallied 4.75 cents a pound to 92.90 cents.

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  (END) Dow Jones Newswires

ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚  09-28-05 1930ET

Copyright ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚© 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

DJ info: 1044

2005-09-28 23:30:12 UTC
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In reply to: wolverine on Thursday 29/09/05 02:37am

Hi Wolve


Let's just say the cost has been VERY worthwhile.


I'm still letting those natural gas positions run. Pipelines are screwed, up to 40 platforms missing in the GOM. More production lost in last 5 weeks than lost in the 5 months surrounding hurricane Ivan. I can't imagine a more bullish scenario. Refineries are also screwed meaning less heating oil will be around as a substitute. The only negative is that these high prices are going to see a reduction in demand, particularly in the industrial end. I just need to choose the level to jump off, although my trailing stops may decide for me.





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nervous times on the natural gas market. Many nervous about taking positions at these heady heights. I took the opportunity to increase length further.


I notice that there are net shorts in the market so hopefully a nice bout of short covering will push it higher.


I think the key piece of information today will be the MMS report. If it still shows a largely unchanged position from Friday it could push the market higher. For what it is worth, I think it will be largely unchanged due to pipeline issues.

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