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ROGUE truck drivers are planning a nationwide two-week strike that they say could starve people of food and fuel.


In a quest for better pay and conditions, the organisers - led by the Australian Long Distance Owners' and Drivers' Association, a national alliance of truck drivers, and two transport tycoons - hope Australia's truckies will kill their engines for two weeks from July 28.





Ministers embrace electric car revolution


A transport gear change could see vehicles given away free, with revenue made from selling motorists contracts to supply power


By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor

Sunday, 20 July 2008


Gordon Brown is to launch the biggest revolution in the way Britons drive since the development of the internal combustion engine. He will meet manufacturers this week to try to persuade them to mass-produce electric cars, and is considering a remarkable plan to sell the cars cheap, together with their fuel, that is modelled on mobile-phone contracts.


The scheme, which has already been taken up by Israel and Denmark, would sell heavily subsidised vehicles ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬Ãƒâ€Â¦ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ or even give them away ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬Ãƒâ€Â¦ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in return for contracts to buy the electricity to charge them. Its inventor, a Silicon Valley software entrepreneur, believes it will at least halve the cost of motoring while dramatically reducing one of the main sources of the pollution that causes global warming.


The Prime Minister ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬Ãƒâ€Â¦ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ who will reveal some of his thinking at the Motor Show this week ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬Ãƒâ€Â¦ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ wants all new cars sold in Britain to be electric or hybrid vehicles by 2020, and is trying to enlist leaders of the motor industry because he wants "to see those cars manufactured in Britain".


He also wants to "incentivise" the rapid changeover to electric vehicles in Britain, and so is studying the mould-breaking scheme being promoted by the 38-year-old entrepreneur, Shai Agassi, backed by $200m (ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚£100m) of venture capital. Under the scheme ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬Ãƒâ€Â¦ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the most advanced of several proposals the Government is considering ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬Ãƒâ€Â¦ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ motorists would be provided with cars just as mobile-phone customers now get their handsets. In return, they would take out a contract for a maximum number of miles.


The contract would entitle them to receive the electricity, either by plugging into any one of hundreds of thousands of recharge points across the country, or by exchanging flat batteries for fully charged ones. At present, the cars' range is likely to be only about 100 miles between recharges, which would take about two hours, so, on longer journeys, motorists would pop into filling stations for a three-minute battery exchange.


However, the plan will only help to fight climate change if the electricity comes not from fossil fuels, but from nuclear or renewable energy.



: )








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QUOTE (triage @ Saturday 12/07/08 08:50pm)

Hello triage, IÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢m quite conversant with the term, however the Spanish disease(derived from the same blessing) preceded it by a long shot(several hundred years), its just that the lessons have been forgotten. Nevertheless, letÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢s stick with the more recent term. Though you should brush up on ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Â¦ÃƒƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…âہ“The Wealth and Poverty of NationsÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚ : David Landes


As to our immunity from the Dutch disease, I would contend we are well down the road from getting its contagion. A quick glance around to see what we ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Â¦ÃƒƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…âہ“donÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢tÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚ make these days, will show that our industriousness is in an advanced state of decline, to a degree where we Australians are spending quite a bit more than we earn from the sales of our mineral assets


Check out AustraliaÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢s foreign debt, now running at a trillion dollars, amounting to a huge percentage of GDP and growing by the year, mostly because nowadays ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Â¦ÃƒƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…âہ“the made in AustraliaÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚ mantra is a fiction. A visit to any shopping mall or hardware store will readily tell the story, let alone a survey of manufacturing job losses due to off-shoring our industries. This, in spite of Kevin Rudd saying he does not want to live in a country that doesnÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢t make things anymore. Hot air IÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢m afraid, he is badly in need of a reality check.


The evidence lies in the sheer volume of capital outflows to buy things off shore, an economic reality which speaks for itself, and one that leaves Australians dangerously exposed. The truth is, we donÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢t even make nuts and bolts(fasteners) anymore. Even General Motors, that American company who make our racing Holden Commodores, stand accused of having their home race track in Shanghai. Yes, sadly itÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢s a common quip these days.


Like the Spanish Empire and the later Dutch example, the fact is, we are inexorably moving down the same path, and itÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢s largely due to our robust democracy, which is so loose that it has done nothing since the end of WW1 to foster true local industry or large scale intellectual capital. Rather, our form of democracy has invited anyone who pleases to set up business here, and if later, they find it cheaper to operate elsewhere in the world, they move on - plant and all, as we have been witnessing.


Indeed, the words ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Â¦ÃƒƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…âہ“robust democraciesÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚ are part of the problem because modern day descriptions of them allow a free-for-all when it comes to who controls these large scale industries which supposedly make our country robust. For instance, we get a murmur from the Japanese giant, Mitsubishi, about their closure of a car manufacturing plant, and guess who gets hurt, the myriad of satellite industries who support this industrial giant. Meanwhile in Japan, an Australian closure translates to more jobs back home.


The challenge is, to find a single ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Â¦ÃƒƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…âہ“AustralianÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚ manufacturing entity or intellectual provider,(such as an Australian Intel, or Caterpillar) who makes a significant contribution to our GDP via exports - we have none. Whereas, as you say, countries like Germany, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, have prospered in spite of (or perhaps because of) their lack of natural resources. To this, you could add Israel, Finland, Sweden, Singapore, Switzerland, and a number of others who use their brains to advance their economies.


However, what we excel at here is inviting others to set up shop in Australia - where we work for them. Especially global mining entities, who are smart enough to see that we are intellectually poor when it comes to country building initiatives. A quick look at the mining giant Xtrata will find they come from Switzerland, a place not known for its mineral wealth, yet they have virtual ownership of a huge chunk of Australia, as does Rio, the London company, and a host of others who really like our form of democracy. Indeed, our robust user friendly stance, which is great for multi nationals, but does little for our structure, save for a job environment.


IÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢m ranting on about this because of RussiaÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¾Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢s latest stance, where they have obviously looked around and decided that energy and mineral resources will be the true wealth of the 21st century, and have made the decision to maximise their assets for Russians, not foreign national shareholders in London or Geneva


Now I know this goes against the grain of free trade and democracy as we know it, but would submit this borderless business is in fact making us poorer, simply because it allows the worlds giants to cherry pick our assets without the bother of participating in country building processes.


So much for robust democracy, which in my view should not be automatically equated with economic prosperity

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In reply to: watchmaker on Sunday 20/07/08 11:45pm

Hi watchmaker


Thanks for such a meaty response.


(The following is a bit off topic folks but bear with me for this one post.)


I am not sure Australia ever had much of a competitive advantage in the car industry. The Americans and Japanese have remained here for so long mainly because of the government subsidies. It has been money down the drain IMO. The trouble with government support is that it encourages parasitic tendancies, whether it's amongst individuals or multinationals (although I think social support has its place for individuals at least). I think it is a shame that the current minister was allowed to revert to form and throw more money at Toyota - at exactly the same time as the PM made the big announcement that we were to get a hybrid assembly plant Toyota announced they were setting up a similarly uncommercially sized assembly plant in Thailand: it seems that hybrid vehicles are their current party trick to keep the locals happy.


I reckon Hong Kong is as close to a living laboratory for economic theory as you can get. Both the colonial and post-colonial goverments have for the most part practiced benign neglect. For decades there has been a do or die survvival of the fittest battle going on. Michael Porter used to use the example of the HK wig industry as an example of how industry can quickly re-invent itself. I spent some time there in the 90's when they are terrified of totally losing the textile industry to neighbouring Guangdong province on the mainland. But HK is still rocking along today, still re-inventing itself.


Analysis I read some time ago (sorry do not have a reference) suggested that those economies that remained closed the most were the ones least able to adjust and improve, and those open the most were the ones that most benefitted from changing conditions. The examples given from memory were those SE Asian countries that opened up like Malaysia and Singapore profited whilst those countries that tried to protect themselves like Burma and the Philippines floundered.


True the Swiss and the yanks and the Brits are into our natural resources but so are we, in the form of companies like BHP and Woodside and Kingsgate, into the resources of other countries. I suspect that we have serious competitive advantage in mining sciences, biological sciences and agricultural sciences and assuming that world trade stays relatively open those will be our areas of strength in the years to come


I see the Russians are trying to set up a gas cartel with the Iranians and the Lybians. Good luck to Ruskies as they are playing just about the only hand they have - my view is that they seem a dysfunctional people being controlled by dysfunctional leaders. IMO they are a failed state waiting to happen.


By the way thanks for the book title. I have not read ÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Â¦ÃƒƒÂ¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…âہ“The Wealth and Poverty of NationsÃÆâ€â„¢ÃƒÆ’ƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¢ÃƒÆ’¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÆ’…¡Ãƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚¬ÃƒÆ’â€Å¡Ãƒƒâہ¡ÃƒÆ’‚ so I will hit the second hand bookshops to see if I can pick up a copy.



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all you oil experts have probably seen this one


sorry about this post in advance - just caught my fancy


PeakOil Passengers - StrapHangers on Planes


"The writer has a radical plan that would instantly make all airlines hugely profitable. Using the typical subway train for inspiration, simply rip out all the seats and have passengers stand up holding on to straps. The turnaround time at airports would in addition be greatly reduced by this measure, as cleaning the aircraft would take next to no time. The safety blurb at the start of the flight could be adapted to instructing people to lean forward at an angle of about 25 degress when the plane takes off. This plan would enable airlines to herd probably 3 times as many people into the space currently being occupied by seated passengers. This would be a great way for many people to reduce their carbon footprint."


makes sense


the probability of a commercial passenger jet crash is very low, lower than a train crash and trains have strap hangers


if a jet crashes most passengers die


so having a seat would make no difference


a seat unit is probably about the weight of an average passenger


so passenger capacity could be at least doubled


if someone needs a seat - that is support - then you could have a drop down sling and harness they could wear to be supported from a ceiling anchor point


a lot of people stand in sydney trains for an hour or more each way


probably evolve into part of the plane being strap hangers and some being seaters


another class distinction


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In reply to: db76 on Tuesday 22/07/08 06:16pm

Interesting Db but would hate to be on a long haul in such a situation.

Imagine a 24hour plus flight to Heathrow!!!!

Also masses of unrestrained people could cause havoc with the centre of gravity on an aircraft if for some unforseen circumstance everyone ended up at one end for instance.

Not much of a problem for a train but as a pilot i for one would not want to be at the pointy end!!!! Too many accidents have occurred from aircraft that have been loaded incorrectly.

Guess this kind of thinking sort of led to the A380 eh! Double them up and reduce the costs.


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Mexico announced that June production was down by 11 percent from June of 2007, largely because of a 35 percent year over year drop in production from Cantarell which is now down to 1.01 million b/d, less than half peak production a few years ago.




When big fields crash like this, it makes the future look pretty scary!!!!


loosing over half its production in a couple of years is in sharp contrast to the fact it would probably take a decade to develop a field of this size....assuming that they actually existed..... http://www.sharescene.com/html/emoticons/weirdsmiley.gif

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The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming! The Russians .... bugger ... they're already here http://www.sharescene.com/html/emoticons/sad.gif


Attached is an article describing circumstances which, if anyway accurately presented, must be very worrying for the leaders of western Europe and ex-Bush America.


It seems that whilst Bush and Cheney have been heavy-handedly acquiring the Iraqi oil-fields and persisting with developing the missile defence system in central Europe Medvedev and Putin have been negotiating their way into having a stranglehold on the world's hydrocarbons supplies.


And the Russians have already shown that they intend to use their control of supplies for political leverage - already both Ukraine and the Czech Republic have had their gas supplies cut for offending the Russians.


This puts the US's desire to provide India with nuclear technology into perspective (India being a cold war ally of the old USSR - it is notable that the Indian group most opposed to the India / US tie up is the Communist Party of India - old alliances die hard I suppose).


So even if you don't buy that we are facing a physical peak oil crisis you would have to be concerned that the Russians are looking to create geopolitical peak oil. The good news for Australia's gas exporters is that there is no way China will want to take sides between the US and Russia or become dependent on a Russian alliance for its gas supplies. So who are they going to turn to? - well Australia has the potential to become one of the biggest suppliers of LNG and there are no Russian naval ports between here and China (I think there was one in Vietnam but that it has closed down) ... http://www.sharescene.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif



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QUOTE (triage @ Wednesday 30/07/08 09:35am)

In that context, and considering the recent anarchists' bombings in India, one might ask "Is it such a great idea to provide India with nuclear facilities?" What if some of the "hot stuff" falls into the wrong hands. Don't bet on "It'll never happen."

Even so, the US would most certainly attach lots of strings and conditions to their delivery contracts, safeguarding their (the US's) geo-political interests. If the other side (India) don't comply, they'd be cut off.

Russia doing the same with their trading partners - looking at things without bias from both sides...

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